Thursday, May 26, 2011

#1060: Cat O' Nine Tails

2:34 PM / Blu-ray / Comments39 Comments

BD

(BD, Blue Underground, Region ABC, USA)

I'm at a loss to describe the picture quality of this release. It's like nothing I've ever seen, and I don't mean in a good way. "Wet newsprint" is the most accurate description I can currently come up with. This is looking to me like Blue Underground's first serious misstep for an Argento film.

 
39 Comments

1. Phil Quail said:

Let's look at it another way... please tell us it looks better than the DVD. Or is it REALLY that bad?

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 4:11 PM)

2. Author Profile Page Michael said:

It looks... different. Considerably better in terms of resolution and noticeably brighter (though whether or not that's the intended look is open to debate)... but for want of a better word, it just looks weird on the whole. If you've seen BU's (or Arrow's) CITY OF THE LIVING DEAD BD, you'll already have some idea of what this looks like.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 4:13 PM)

3. Phil Quail said:

Yeah, I've got both the "COTLD" Blu-rays and they do look weird, in an indescribable sort of way. They make me think of those pictures you "paint" with water to bring out hidden colours, for some reason....

Still, after watching the BU version of "COTLD", I stuck in the old Anchor Bay DVD and it did look immeasurably worse. That's some kind of consolation.

Another odd one is Arrow's "The Beyond". It's had the usual lavish praise over on Cult Labs, but to be honest I really don't think it looks very good at all (even on the reissued BD-50 version).

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 4:44 PM)

4. Author Profile Page Michael said:

Ah, I haven't picked up THE BEYOND. The captures I've seen looked dreadful.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 5:03 PM)

5. Toecutter said:

So "upgrading" from the AB DVD is a No?

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 6:40 PM)

6. Author Profile Page Michael said:

Toecutter:

THE BEYOND or CAT? I can't really comment with any authority on the former. As for the latter... ehhhh, I'll want to watch it from beginning to end before making any pronouncements. On the whole I suspect it's probably better, but the very fact that I'm having trouble definitely recommending a 2011 BD over a ten-year-old DVD shows that we're in trouble.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 6:42 PM)

7. Toecutter said:

Yes, I was referring to Cat9.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 6:48 PM)

8. Frank said:

Well, the BR may look weird, but it's still in my opinion a nice upgrade from the AB DVD. In fact, I've watched a few scenes of both, and was surprised to find the DVD as "bad" as it is.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 6:48 PM)

9. Toecutter said:

On a happier note, Finchers 'Dragon Tattoo' teaser with some Reznor/Zeppelin music has just been released.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 6:59 PM)

10. Author Profile Page Michael said:

Toecutter:

Whereabouts can we see it? A lot of people seem to be talking about it but I've yet to come across a working link.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM)

11. Toecutter said:

Yeah, it's only in theaters so far, on-line a bit later.

"We come from the land of the ice and snow"

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 7:18 PM)

12. Author Profile Page Michael said:

OK, gotcha. I'm awaiting it with no small amount of interest, coupled by a healthy dose of trepidation.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 7:19 PM)

13. gasteropod said:

From the screencaps I've seen, it's got the same problem as their Stendhal Syndrome Blu-ray, which I've recently realised is actually trash. When I first bought it my TV settings were different and it appeared to be grain, but now I can see that it is definitely noise and completely unacceptable.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 9:04 PM)

14. Brian said:

That Stendhal BD is still the best home video presentation of, though. It is flawed, but it is what it is. Looks like this release of Cat might be the same. I would never go back to the Troma DVD of Stendhal, I will say that for sure. Worst looking DVD I've owned, including public domain releases.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 9:14 PM)

15. Author Profile Page Michael said:

The STENDHAL BD doesn't really compare to this in my opinion. There seems to be genuine detail under all that noise-like grain, unlike here, where the whole thing just looks smeary and undefined:

http://www.landofwhimsy.com/funbag/catwtf1.jpg
http://www.landofwhimsy.com/funbag/catwtf2.jpg
http://www.landofwhimsy.com/funbag/catwtf3.jpg

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 9:16 PM)

16. Toecutter said:

A sad state of affairs, that looks really ugly.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 9:59 PM)

17. Roy said:

[B]Phil:[/B]

Lavish praise from Cult Labs members should be taken with a huge grain of salt. They're known for banning whoever criticizes Arrow products. You can't even call these real discussions. Expect a lot of auto-promotion and censorsip. Pretty much the same thing has been going on recently over at Blu-ray.com, so I'd be very careful. 'The Beyond' Blu-ray from Arrow undoubtedly sucks.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 11:36 PM)

18. Phil Quail said:

Roy:

"Lavish praise from Cult Labs members should be taken with a huge grain of salt."

Yes, I've noticed. ;)

Still, it surprises me that "The Beyond" (and other Arrow releases) get even as much praise as they do. I'm not anti-Arrow, I continue to buy their Blu-rays and I commend them for their efforts with the extras and packaging. But the actual video transfers are, for the most part, simply not very good. And that seems obvious, even to me.

(Their Arrow Academy releases, like "Rififi" seem to be much better, from what I've seen. "Spirits of the Dead" looks good to me too, but perhaps only because its such a huge improvement on previous DVDs of that film.)

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 11:51 PM)

19. Trond said:

http://www.avmaniacs.com/blog/2011/new-reviews/troy-howarth/the-cat-onine-tails-blu-ray-review/

"The Anchor Bay DVD was something of a revelation in its time, but like so many (comparatively) early DVD releases, it was badly in need of a fresh upgrade. Happily, Blue Underground saw fit to provide the fans with just that. Their new blu ray release is bound to remain the definitive edition. The 2.35/16×9/1080p transfer looks absolutely gorgeous. Colors are rich and vibrant, print quality is superb, and the increased level of detail is plain to see. There are no mastering defects to report, making this one of the most satisfying presentations of an Argento film on BD to date."

Lol, I guess.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 11:52 PM)

20. Phil Quail said:

Those "Cat" captures do look strange! Does that grain/noise swim around sickeningly when the film's in motion, like "Stendhal"?

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 11:53 PM)

21. Author Profile Page Michael said:

Arrow's RIFIFI looks outstanding from what I've seen of it - 10/10 material, potentially. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that a different team was responsible for the Arrow Academy releases.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 11:54 PM)

22. Roy said:

Well now I'm wondering if it's actually one huge grai if salt or multiple regular grains.

(Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 11:57 PM)

23. gasteropod said:

@ Michael: Regardless of detail, Stendhal and Cat both share the same type of dreadful noise, which seems to be originating from whoever's making the HD masters in Italy, disgraceful. I'll take Arrow's Phenomena and Inferno over that any day, I honestly don't think they're bad. I presume their upcoming BD of Cat O' Nine Tails will be from the exact same master as the BU though :(

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 12:11 AM)

24. Trond said:

So linking to a review probably triggered the spam filter to trash my previous comment, guess I'll try again.

Here's what someone says about this BD:

"The 2.35/16×9/1080p transfer looks absolutely gorgeous. Colors are rich and vibrant, print quality is superb, and the increased level of detail is plain to see. There are no mastering defects to report, making this one of the most satisfying presentations of an Argento film on BD to date."

I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 12:15 AM)

25. Author Profile Page Michael said:

Trond:

My spam filter has been going nuts lately. I'm having to rescue legit posts from it on a daily basis. It's a pain in the ass, but the only alternative would be to be deluged by up to 200 spam messages a day.

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 12:20 AM)

26. Brian said:

Troy's a good guy, but I seem to disagree with him when it comes to PQ. I'll be receiving this BD of Cat next week. It better not be total crap.

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 12:41 AM)

27. Greg M said:

Jesus does that look hideous. I might actually end up skipping one of my absolute favorite Argento films on Blu Ray. PIty.

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 12:48 AM)

28. Ryan Clark said:

Those screenshots DO look pretty bad, but in motion it's probably not as noticeable so I'll still be picking up this release. I will say that the grain (?) on The Stendhal Syndrome blu-ray is distractingly bad. Normally I love grain, but it just looks weird there. That's probably the only Blu-ray I actually regret buying, and I kinda wish I'd stuck with the DVD, which didn't have the grain issue.

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 1:20 AM)

29. Christopher D. Jacobson said:

This does look pretty weird, and honestly a lot weirder than City of the Living Dead[/i], in my opinion (though similar). I hope there's a full review with more screencaps within a couple of days. It would help determine whether I cancel my pre-order... I watched the DVD recently and it didn't look terrible or anything. Even at $16, I can't really say if the Blu-ray's a worthy upgrade. Sixteen bucks better spent elsewhere, y'know?

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 4:35 AM)

30. Daniel Sardella said:

Michael-

Knowing how you feel about most of the Arrow transfers, do you think it's possible that their release of Cat will actually look worse?

I was planning on skipping the double dip for Cat and just getting the BU, which I'll still likely do, but may wait until I can get it for $12 or less. I find it hard to justify paying more than $15 for most BDs these days.

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 4:58 AM)

31. Author Profile Page Michael said:

Brian:

I enjoy Troy's reviews. He's knowledgeable about the films and his passion for them shines through in everything he writes. In this case, though, I have to seriously disagree with him about his assessment of the CAT BD.


Ryan:

For me there's no contest: I'd MUCH rather watch the STENDHAL BD than this. I'd also much rather watch Arrow's INFERNO or DEEP RED. :(


Daniel:

I can't prejudge Arrow's upcoming CAT release without having seen either the real thing or even screen captures. My suspicion is that it's unlikely to look any BETTER, given that they'll probably be using the same master and I'm not convinced ANYTHING could be done to improve it. Could it look worse? Theoretically - my big concern is that they'll try to attack it with a grain reduction algorithm that doesn't know what to make of the layer of noise "on top" of the image (it wouldn't surprise me if that was what happened to their DEEP RED).

Arrow's trump card has always been their extras and it may well be that yes, in this case, their release comes out on top by virtue of being more stacked in that department, despite the picture quality. Of the three Argentos that both Arrow and BU have put out so far - BIRD, DEEP RED, INFERNO - if the image quality had been equal I would have gone for the Arrow each time. As it is, in each case the Arrow has had better extras but worse image quality, and I'm afraid that for me (and I would imagine most people who upgraded from DVD to BD) image quality is vastly more important than extras.


PS. Just remembered another Arrow disc that looks decent (from what I've seen of it): VAMP.

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 9:25 AM)

32. Miles said:

Buying a Bluray player a couple of years ago, one of the things I was most looking fwd to upgrading were the films of Dario Angento. With one lukewarm/disastrous release after another I think I might be getting close to the point where I won't be "upgrading" any of them.

(Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 at 10:39 AM)

33. Daniel Sardella said:

Michael,

My thinking is, if the image is just as "mediocre" on the Arrow release, I may as get that version, for the extras, so I'll hold off until I get an "expert" opinion (that would be you) to see which version(s) I get.

(Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 2:06 AM)

34. Brian said:

The Beav's got a review up:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews50/cat_o_nine_tales.htm

(Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2011 at 5:22 AM)

35. Anthony said:

Another rave review up at BD.com.

(Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2011 at 7:11 AM)

36. Author Profile Page Michael said:

Daniel:

Probably wise. I can't imagine anyone being able to make that master look any better, but on the plus side it probably can't look much worse, and if we get comparable image quality plus Arrow's usual stacked line-up of extras, it'll at least have that in its favour.


Brian:

Ha, on this occasion DVD Beaver's blurred captures actually make the disc look a little better than it is. :D

(Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2011 at 11:29 AM)

37. Phil Quail said:

It's getting lots of good reviews, and I can see that superficially it's an improvement on the DVD, but when you study that comparison on DVD Beaver the Blu-ray doesn't REALLY seem to reveal much, if any, additional fine detail.

And like the "Deep Red" master, it seems a bit over-brightened (and/or DNR'd) which has had a weird smoothing effect on skin textures. Look at the picture of the unfortunate chap being hit by the train - on the DVDs you can see a lot more texture on his skin, five-o'clock shadow etc. And in the picture of Malden and Franciscus standing by the wall, much of the texture of the bricks has vanished.

Oh well, these things are sent to try us.

(Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2011 at 12:44 PM)

38. Ryan Clark said:

Okay, I'm looking at the Blu-ray as I write and I have to say that in motion it doesn't look bad at all. In fact, it doesn't look that much different from their transfer of The Bird with the Crystal Plumage, which I thought was very, very good. Maybe overly bright at times, sure. I don't have a gigantic TV or anything, so maybe that's why I don't see anything wrong with the transfer, which really only looks weird to me when you look at the screenshots in full resolution. I MUCH prefer this transfer to their Stendhal Blu-ray. At least the grain (or whatever it is) appears to be a part of the image on Cat; on Stendhal it's on TOP of the image, so it's very distracting to me.

(Posted on Saturday, June 4, 2011 at 7:57 AM)

39. Author Profile Page Michael said:

Ryan:

I honestly wouldn't put this anywhere close to the same league as THE BIRD WITH THE CRYSTAL PLUMAGE. That disc is far from perfect, but it looks so much more detailed and film-like its unbelievable. I have to completely disagree too that the grain "appears to be part of the image" of CAT - in my opinion the exact opposite is true and STENDHAL, despite its excessively noisy look, at least seems to have actual detail underneath it. With CAT, take away the grain/noise/whatever it is, and all you'd be left with is smeary blobs.

(Posted on Saturday, June 4, 2011 at 7:39 PM)

 
To combat spam, commenting is automatically disabled on entries older than 30 days.

Did a comment you tried to post accidentally get eaten by the spam filter? It happens from time to time. I get upwards of 200 spam comments every day and unfortunately don't have the time to weed through all of them in case something genuine ended up there by mistake. If one of your posts gets incorrectly flagged as spam, email me at m.r.mackenzie[at]gmail[dot]com and I'll do my best to retrieve it.

 
Archives
Categories
Recent posts